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<head><meta charset="utf-8"><title>turbofish thread, cc rust-lang/wg-governance#44 · wg-governance · Zulip Chat Archive</title></head>
<h2>Stream: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/index.html">wg-governance</a></h2>
<h3>Topic: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/turbofish.20thread.2C.20cc.20rust-lang.2Fwg-governance.2344.html">turbofish thread, cc rust-lang/wg-governance#44</a></h3>

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<a name="194937511"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/turbofish%20thread%2C%20cc%20rust-lang/wg-governance%2344/near/194937511" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/turbofish.20thread.2C.20cc.20rust-lang.2Fwg-governance.2344.html#194937511">(Apr 22 2020 at 14:18)</a>:</h4>
<p>Hi everyone (and cc <span class="user-group-mention" data-user-group-id="1977">@T-lang</span>), I want to raise a question that I've been discussing with <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="121053">@varkor</span>. It would be in some way talking about putting some of the ideas from <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/wg-governance/issues/44" title="https://github.com/rust-lang/wg-governance/issues/44">rust-lang/wg-governance#44</a> into practice. Specifically, <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="121053">@varkor</span> had prepared a quite controversial RFC regarding the removal of turbofish</p>



<a name="194937536"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/turbofish%20thread%2C%20cc%20rust-lang/wg-governance%2344/near/194937536" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/turbofish.20thread.2C.20cc.20rust-lang.2Fwg-governance.2344.html#194937536">(Apr 22 2020 at 14:18)</a>:</h4>
<p>I am obviously not interested in debating the subject matter of the RFC here :)</p>



<a name="194937596"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/turbofish%20thread%2C%20cc%20rust-lang/wg-governance%2344/near/194937596" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/turbofish.20thread.2C.20cc.20rust-lang.2Fwg-governance.2344.html#194937596">(Apr 22 2020 at 14:19)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="121053">@varkor</span> was talking to me about the idea of re-opening the RFC, and we were discussing what we could do to help manage the resulting conversation.</p>



<a name="194937725"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/turbofish%20thread%2C%20cc%20rust-lang/wg-governance%2344/near/194937725" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/turbofish.20thread.2C.20cc.20rust-lang.2Fwg-governance.2344.html#194937725">(Apr 22 2020 at 14:20)</a>:</h4>
<p>An interesting point that, I think, is relevant is that while much of the lang team favors the RFC still (despite the concerns raised on the thread), there are some of us who would like to think about it more, so there is probably still some desire to float some possible resolutions to the concerns and get feedback -- but in a controlled, productive way.</p>



<a name="194937836"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/turbofish%20thread%2C%20cc%20rust-lang/wg-governance%2344/near/194937836" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/turbofish.20thread.2C.20cc.20rust-lang.2Fwg-governance.2344.html#194937836">(Apr 22 2020 at 14:20)</a>:</h4>
<p>I was saying to <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="121053">@varkor</span> that this seems like a golden opportunity to "try out" some of the things we've discussed. To some extent, we are "de facto" trying out the "close the old RFC and open a new one that starts with a summary" model</p>



<a name="194937866"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/turbofish%20thread%2C%20cc%20rust-lang/wg-governance%2344/near/194937866" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/turbofish.20thread.2C.20cc.20rust-lang.2Fwg-governance.2344.html#194937866">(Apr 22 2020 at 14:20)</a>:</h4>
<p>(as did <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="143274">@Amanieu</span> with the inline assembly thread, I'd still like to follow up with him on how that felt)</p>



<a name="194937898"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/turbofish%20thread%2C%20cc%20rust-lang/wg-governance%2344/near/194937898" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/turbofish.20thread.2C.20cc.20rust-lang.2Fwg-governance.2344.html#194937898">(Apr 22 2020 at 14:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>We also discussed the idea of having a dedicated, neutral facilitator, as <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="132040">@Manish Goregaokar</span> has proposed.</p>



<a name="194938027"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/turbofish%20thread%2C%20cc%20rust-lang/wg-governance%2344/near/194938027" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/turbofish.20thread.2C.20cc.20rust-lang.2Fwg-governance.2344.html#194938027">(Apr 22 2020 at 14:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>In general I think that starting a thread that has</p>
<ul>
<li>a summary of key points and current opinion / how we plan to address</li>
<li>laying out the ground rules up front </li>
<li>relatively strict enforcement of those rules </li>
</ul>
<p>is a good idea.</p>



<a name="194938037"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/turbofish%20thread%2C%20cc%20rust-lang/wg-governance%2344/near/194938037" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/turbofish.20thread.2C.20cc.20rust-lang.2Fwg-governance.2344.html#194938037">(Apr 22 2020 at 14:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>but that leaves a lot of room :)</p>



<a name="194938137"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/turbofish%20thread%2C%20cc%20rust-lang/wg-governance%2344/near/194938137" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/turbofish.20thread.2C.20cc.20rust-lang.2Fwg-governance.2344.html#194938137">(Apr 22 2020 at 14:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>Anyway, we wanted to bring this conversation somewhere a bit more public and get some input.</p>



<a name="194938266"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/turbofish%20thread%2C%20cc%20rust-lang/wg-governance%2344/near/194938266" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> BatmanAoD (Kyle Strand) <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/turbofish.20thread.2C.20cc.20rust-lang.2Fwg-governance.2344.html#194938266">(Apr 22 2020 at 14:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>Hmm. I haven't looked at the thread yet, but if it's that controversial, is it worth taking the discussion somewhere else (discourse/zulip/elsewhere) for a while?</p>



<a name="194939584"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/turbofish%20thread%2C%20cc%20rust-lang/wg-governance%2344/near/194939584" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> varkor <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/turbofish.20thread.2C.20cc.20rust-lang.2Fwg-governance.2344.html#194939584">(Apr 22 2020 at 14:30)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think synchronous conversations don't work well apart from with very small groups of people, both because it's hard to organise (e.g. with time zones) and real-time discussions can easily become even more vitriolic than RFC threads.</p>



<a name="194939724"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/turbofish%20thread%2C%20cc%20rust-lang/wg-governance%2344/near/194939724" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> varkor <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/turbofish.20thread.2C.20cc.20rust-lang.2Fwg-governance.2344.html#194939724">(Apr 22 2020 at 14:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>And I think an asynchronous discussion on something like Zulip or Discord (or even Discourse) is liable to become far too much to keep up with.</p>



<a name="194944210"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/turbofish%20thread%2C%20cc%20rust-lang/wg-governance%2344/near/194944210" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> BatmanAoD (Kyle Strand) <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/turbofish.20thread.2C.20cc.20rust-lang.2Fwg-governance.2344.html#194944210">(Apr 22 2020 at 15:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>It seems to me that a new RFC PR would have the same issue, though, wouldn't it?</p>



<a name="194944500"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/turbofish%20thread%2C%20cc%20rust-lang/wg-governance%2344/near/194944500" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/turbofish.20thread.2C.20cc.20rust-lang.2Fwg-governance.2344.html#194944500">(Apr 22 2020 at 15:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>Well is there value in putting out some kind of initial post on a blog ahead of the RFC? I think announcing the change with a comment thread will just invite a lot of discussion to happen on that thread. If there is a blog post first a lot of the initial discussion and traffic can occur where members aren't obligated to respond.</p>



<a name="194944961"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/turbofish%20thread%2C%20cc%20rust-lang/wg-governance%2344/near/194944961" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/turbofish.20thread.2C.20cc.20rust-lang.2Fwg-governance.2344.html#194944961">(Apr 22 2020 at 15:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="219696">@XAMPPRocky</span> that's a really good suggestion.</p>



<hr><p>Last updated: Aug 07 2021 at 22:04 UTC</p>
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